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Post by kemancha on Feb 8, 2021 10:12:18 GMT -8
Hello Nautical owners. I have been dreaming of owning a Nauticat for many years. I have been a sailor and a trawler owner and have many years and miles along the eastern seaboard of the US. If you google Nauticat 33, you get both positive and negative feedback which would be typical of any vessel brand. I owned a Westsail 32 for many years and had to endure the constant negative remarks about this remarkable boat. I can only tell people that we never felt in any danger out at sea on that vessel and under the right wind conditions, could hold 7.5 knots all day! I Then moved on to a Monk 36 trawler and after two years and about 3000 miles, I sold that boat due to expense of maintenance given all the systems on board, and excessive rolling in a seaway. I've been boatless now for 7 years and considering a return to living on the water.
My questions surround the older N33 as it is a vessel size I believe I could solo and large enough for my needs. I have a few questions that perhaps Nauticat owners could answer:
1. Are the teak decks a problem as they are on older trawlers? I'm looking at mid 80's models?
2. Can this boat sail without power and at what reasonable speed in 12-15 knots of wind?
3. What is the best cruising speed under power with the 90 HP Lehman? What would be the fuel consumption?
4. Are the fuel tanks vulnerable to leaking at this age?
5. Are there any issues commonplace on the N33 at this age that I need to consider?
6. What is the standing headroom in pilothouse, main cabin?
7. Is there a way to carry the unstepped masts if I am traveling waterways with fixed bridges?
Sorry for the list but it is not easy to find N33 in my area of New Hampshire for sale. I was on one many years ago but can't remember much of the details. Thank you for your response.
Don
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Post by davidN43grace on Feb 8, 2021 15:23:13 GMT -8
Welcome to our forum CPO Don!
The 33 seems like a great motor sailor though I've don't have experience with them. I can address a few things you mentioned and I hope our N33 owners will jump in as well.
Nauticat are very well built boats. Being from europe and the mid 80's means that we constantly have to switch between metric and SAE, different color schemes for wiring, etc. I have assembled quite an impressive tool collection after 3 years of owning Grace!
Fuel tanks are steel and prone to rusting and leaking if they aren't well sealed and protected from moisture. We've replaced one tank and know we will need to replace the other someday. It's an expensive hassle, but not impossible, and nothing to daunt an owner who plans to keep their beloved boat for a long time.
Any mid-80's boat will need updating, which can be extensive if you allow it to be, just depends upon your budget, skills, and what previous owners have done. I would plan to lay out at least 1/4 of the purchase price for upgrades and updating.
My boat, a 20 ton N43 ketch, came with a ford lehman 90, which we yanked out and replaced with a Beta 85. The 90 is more than the 33 needs, but manufacturers are often happy to accommodate buyers who want more power than the boat needs. I'm no expert at matching boats and engines, but it seems to me the 90 is much more than what a 33 needs to reach hull speed and power through chop.
I can't speak to cruising speed, sailing ability, or fuel consumption of the N33 with a 90 hp engine, but can tell you that our cruising speed is a smidgen above 7 knots in optimum conditions, and we burn @1.25 gallon per hour at moderate cruising RPM (1800-2000 RPM on our Beta 85, top is 2200, with a 22 inch prop). Grace wakes up under sail at and above 15 knots, any less is pretty slow going unless we fly our spinnaker. We're full time cruisers and with 200 gallons of fuel, 200 gallons of water, 500 feet of chain, multiple anchors and all our stuff, we're a heavy boat! If Grace was a dock queen I'm sure her sailing performance would be much better, but we're not in a hurry.
I hope this helps!
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Post by man7sell on Feb 8, 2021 15:52:36 GMT -8
Addressing the teak decks. 1. The main deck (and on my 40 the cabin pilothouse) is a solid fiberglass, so even with the teak aging you won't have a problem with core rot. I have been removing some areas of my teak and have a couple more areas still to do. The rest of the deck will get the occasional replaced piece and see how long I can make it last. Under the teak is the factory non skid as teak decks were an option.
I have the Ford Lehman 90 in my NC40 and it is more than enough for my boat. My cruise is about 7.5 knots at 1700 rpm.
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Post by man7sell on Feb 9, 2021 8:19:28 GMT -8
7. Is there a way to carry the unstepped masts if I am traveling waterways with fixed bridges? Example |
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Post by kemancha on Feb 10, 2021 13:02:18 GMT -8
Thanks for all your answers to the several questions I posted on the NC33. Since I live in NH, finding a NC33 for sale is difficult. However, there is one in Quebec, CA that is for sale and as I write this, it went under contract yesterday! They had a US price of $59,000 which is a very good price for this boat assuming it is in average condition. It was listed on yachtworld.
I am currently in FL so no chance to go up to Canada and there is still a restriction on entering Canada due to covid. I will keep an eye out on this sale and see if it does go through.
I plan to be back north again by late April. Again, thanks for your responses!
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Post by tkschultz on Feb 14, 2021 18:50:41 GMT -8
Hello Nautical owners. I have been dreaming of owning a Nauticat for many years. I have been a sailor and a trawler owner and have many years and miles along the eastern seaboard of the US. If you google Nauticat 33, you get both positive and negative feedback which would be typical of any vessel brand. I owned a Westsail 32 for many years and had to endure the constant negative remarks about this remarkable boat. I can only tell people that we never felt in any danger out at sea on that vessel and under the right wind conditions, could hold 7.5 knots all day! I Then moved on to a Monk 36 trawler and after two years and about 3000 miles, I sold that boat due to expense of maintenance given all the systems on board, and excessive rolling in a seaway. I've been boatless now for 7 years and considering a return to living on the water.
My questions surround the older N33 as it is a vessel size I believe I could solo and large enough for my needs. I have a few questions that perhaps Nauticat owners could answer:
1. Are the teak decks a problem as they are on older trawlers? I'm looking at mid 80's models?
2. Can this boat sail without power and at what reasonable speed in 12-15 knots of wind?
3. What is the best cruising speed under power with the 90 HP Lehman? What would be the fuel consumption?
4. Are the fuel tanks vulnerable to leaking at this age?
5. Are there any issues commonplace on the N33 at this age that I need to consider?
6. What is the standing headroom in pilothouse, main cabin?
7. Is there a way to carry the unstepped masts if I am traveling waterways with fixed bridges?
Sorry for the list but it is not easy to find N33 in my area of New Hampshire for sale. I was on one many years ago but can't remember much of the details. Thank you for your response.
Don |
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Post by tkschultz on Feb 14, 2021 19:34:32 GMT -8
I own a 1987 NC33 and will endeavor to address your questions.
1) since its solid layup (no balsa or marine ply core) beneath the teak deck, maintenance for me has just been caluking and bungs. I tackle it a little at a time as wear starts to reveal the screw heads. For me there has been plenty of teak thickness remaining to repeat a new screw and bung where needed. I also always rationalized that when the time comes I could always just switch to non-skid.
2) you can definitely sail without engine in 12-15.knots. I do find tacking a challenge in lighter winds and definitely need to backwind the genoa to get her to come about. Spilling the mainsail helps too. A controlled gybe always is an option too.
3)my sweet spot with the SP90 is 1400 RPMs, pushing her at roughly 6-6,5 knts consuming approx 1.1 - 1.3 gal per hr.
4)my original fuel tanks have not been an issue. I do however keep them pressed up full for the most part and for certain during winter here in California.
5)nothing comes to mind related to common issues. I do worry about the lehman 90 no longer being in production but haven't had any trouble finding parts through American Diesel (Brain Smith is awesome). For extended crusing I would consider adding a freezer. Mine just has the refrigerator.
6) I was 6-2 in my younger days but I'm sure gravity has me just over 6 ft now ( I hate getting old). Pilot house ( under the large hatch at the inside helm) is full height for me with a ball cap on. The salon & head I think is more like 5-11. I don't notice ducking or slouching until I'm in the aft cabin and there im usually sitting or lying down. Standing at the gallery sink is full headroom too since its part of the companion way from the pilot
7) no clue on the mast storage or a tabernacle arrangement. I'm all open water out this way.
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Post by jacknc33 on Feb 27, 2021 10:36:59 GMT -8
I have owned 1985 NC33 MKII (with fin keel and skeg) for more than 10 years. I think tkschultz has it about right in his posting. Hull speed is just over 6 knots and at that speed i have measured 1 gal / hr (with a clean smooth bottom - when i bought her the bottom was rough and fuel consumption was 10+% higher). I have a boat review posted at www.nc33.top that was written by a boat surveyor for spinsheet.com and is an accurate description of the NC33. I moved the boat from lake Erie to Lake Seneca on the Erie Canal with the masts supported on   'sawhorses.' The pictures don't include strapping from masts to sides of deck that is needed if the boat is subjected to roll from wave action.
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Bruce
Chief Petty Officer
Posts: 40
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Post by Bruce on Feb 28, 2021 8:18:32 GMT -8
All of the above, with some additional comments and things I’ve learned in the 4 years we’ve had our 1989 NC33:
The ketch rig is adequate, and new sails helped a lot, although I would like to add a staysail and some light air sails to the inventory. I often single-hand. The boat is surprisingly slippery, and will move even in light air. Slowly, but still moving even with the engine off. (For light air tacking, backwinding the mizzen seems to help swing the bow through the wind, then backwind the genoa).
Feathering prop is on the wishlist.
I don’t care that mine is not the faster MKII. We are set up for cruising (Great Lakes for now). After 20+ years with a 30’ Beneteau racer set up for cruising and that displaced what the NC33’s keel weighs, I really appreciate the room and the ride of the Nauticat.
The fuel tanks were replaced by the PO when one starting weeping at a corner. A big deal, I was told. He had the engine pulled out and replaced the tanks with identical to OEM. I have been told that there are easier ways to deal with this but with some loss of tankage. (The original capacity is 180 U.S. gallons, so sacrificing some may not matter).
There is significant upward force on the forward chainplates and mine seem to be lifting a bit. Most systems on the boat have excellent accessibility and I am hoping that holds true for these too.
I replaced the original steel holding tank with an identical custom HDPE version. Uric acid+ salt water+ steel = sieve. Now, no more head odor.
Nauticats were well-made, and generally overbuilt. There will be things to fix or replace on any 30+ year old boat. I like the long list of things I don’t have to worry about with the NC33. Solid fiberglass so no soft decks, integrated lead ballast so no keelbolts, etc.
Good luck with your search.
- Bruce
The Boat of Laughter and Forgetting
1989 NC33
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cofc
Commander
Posts: 109
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Post by cofc on Nov 27, 2022 12:12:48 GMT -8
There is significant upward force on the forward chainplates and mine seem to be lifting a bit. Most systems on the boat have excellent accessibility and I am hoping that holds true for these too. - Bruce The Boat of Laughter and Forgetting 1989 NC33 Did you ever get around to doing this? I'm in the process right now and trying to go about finding the best way to access the 6 chainplates amidships. I the backstays and mizzen plates were relatively simple. |
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Post by tkschultz on Nov 29, 2022 8:05:55 GMT -8
Hey Bruce - I too am interested in the access question related to the midship shroud anchors (or chainplates). Please post some pictures if you crack the code or have any lessons learned.
On an aside, upon close inspection of mine from the deck, I too have area around the anchor thats elevated. I concluded that since there were no stress cracks in the gelcoat or any visible signs of damage and the same "elevated" area existed on both port/starboard, that this might be intentional with the original layup mold to prevent water from "pooling" around the anchor.
Anyway - Hope it works out for you. Let us know hoe it goes.
Todd
1987 NC33
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cofc
Commander
Posts: 109
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Post by cofc on Dec 1, 2022 9:47:55 GMT -8
In the past few days I have accessed every U-Bolt (or chainplate if we’re calling them that) on my 33. All of them were relatively easy to get to, aside from the lower aft shrouds on the main. Those are located above a large sections of the ceiling portions of cabinetry.
Fortunately on both sides there is trim work directly in front of this. Instead of removing the entire cabinet face (and having to drill out all of those bungs) I simply cut an access hole in the ceiling of the cabinetry. After changing the bolt, patching the hole back in, and reinstalling the trim, it should not be visible at all.
I’ll also say that it appears the “raised deck” issue we’re all seeing around U bolts was intentional. The back side of all of the fiberglass appears to be flat, and as it came from the factory. I haven’t gotten around to removing and replacing all of the main bolts yet, so I may have to change my opinion on that. But as far as major movement, I’ve seen none.
I have spent the week re glassing the attachment point for the starboard forward mizzen shroud. After taking it off to replace, I discovered that it cracked the fiberglass and tried to pull through the coachroof. I’m assuming this happened because we use the mizzen boom to raise and lower our Yamaha 15hp outboard off of the port side. This would put the most strain on the shroud. The backing plate for the mizzen U bolts are tiny, 3 square inches, almost as small as the plate on the bolt itself. I’m glassing in 3x6 sections of G10 as new backing plates for these U bolts. I will be doing the same for the bolts that carry the turning blocks mounted to the aft deck.
I’m going to make a new thread with pictures of all of these bolts as I go along and replace them. I’m replacing the bolts because we have had 2 of the 8mm bolts, and one of the 10mm bolts fail in the last year. Upon removing the broken bolt, the inside of the threaded portion was completely corroded. Like black Swiss cheese. Our boat is a 1986, just FYI for those with original bolts.
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Post by tkschultz on Dec 2, 2022 19:01:15 GMT -8
Good stuff - thanks for the extra info and I look forward to seeing the expanded thread. My NC33 is a 1987 so you definitely have me wondering about the integrity of the u-bolts given you have experienced failures.
Todd
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cofc
Commander
Posts: 109
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Post by cofc on Dec 22, 2022 17:16:23 GMT -8
Just finished replacing every U-Bolt and the standing rigging. 4 of the bolts (3 8mm and 1 10mm) either failed completely or were about to fail. I have pictures of the whole process, but am on mobile right now.
No major deflection in the fiberglass, so I reused the large backing plates with the new U bolts on the main. The mizzen shrouds and the turning blocks had backing plates that were quite small, so I used thickened epoxy to glass in much larger plates made of 1/4” G10. Then used the backing plate supplied by Wichard.
All in all the process too about 3 weeks, doing one Shroud per day. It took a while to get going though. Dismantling the ceiling panels and cabinetry was straightforward, but too a couple of days.
I’ll post a new thread with photos and more detail once I am able to.
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Post by man7sell on Dec 23, 2022 12:05:46 GMT -8
Just finished replacing every U-Bolt and the standing rigging. 4 of the bolts (3 8mm and 1 10mm) either failed completely or were about to fail. I have pictures of the whole process, but am on mobile right now. No major deflection in the fiberglass, so I reused the large backing plates with the new U bolts on the main. The mizzen shrouds and the turning blocks had backing plates that were quite small, so I used thickened epoxy to glass in much larger plates made of 1/4” G10. Then used the backing plate supplied by Wichard. All in all the process too about 3 weeks, doing one Shroud per day. It took a while to get going though. Dismantling the ceiling panels and cabinetry was straightforward, but too a couple of days. I’ll post a new thread with photos and more detail once I am able to. May I suggest you start a new thread in the rigging section, that would be awesome with your pics.
Paul
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