ksamnic
Chief Petty Officer
Posts: 4
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Post by ksamnic on Feb 1, 2023 8:44:50 GMT -8
Hi people. I own a Nautical 38, live and sail in the Pacific Northwest. We spend most summers on the boat and have travelled as far north as the Broughton's and as far south as Seattle. We love the boat and feel it is a perfect coastal cruiser. Lately we have been considering a trip down to Mexico, but have a couple concerns - so I thought I would ask here for opinions. 1. we find the boat rolls a lot in a quartering or beam sea ... more so than most boats. It is not inherently dangerous, but we figure it could be quite uncomfortable for a week or more at sea in 3-5m waves. Does anyone have any thoughts on this, such as how their boat handles in such seas, or are there suggestions to dampen the roll? 2. The side entry doors - is this a safety concern at sea? 3. The pilothouse infrastructure has a lot of forward facing glass, and it doesn't appear that there is a lot of structural support... but I am not an engineer or such person - so I am only commenting on what I see. My concern is that in a storm the boat could take some pretty significant water over the bow - and breaking the windows or pilothouse infrastructure could be disastrous. Has anyone heard of such a thing on these boats (or the 44, which seems to be similar design)? Thanks ... Rob Neilson  |
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Post by davidN43grace on Feb 1, 2023 9:51:42 GMT -8
Hi Rob,
You'll get many differing opinions to your questions, here's mine FWIW-
1. we find the boat rolls a lot in a quartering or beam sea ... more so than most boats. It is not inherently dangerous, but we figure it could be quite uncomfortable for a week or more at sea in 3-5m waves. Does anyone have any thoughts on this, such as how their boat handles in such seas, or are there suggestions to dampen the roll?
***While sailing or motoring or both? I find that any sailboat rolls much less with the sails up and we motorsail a lot in our N43 here in the PNW when the winds are too light for sailing but the swells create too much roll.
2. The side entry doors - is this a safety concern at sea?
***In my opinion, YES. I view this boat as a coastal motorsailor and going to Mexico would be fine harbor hopping during good weather windows but I woudn't want to be in an offshore gale in your boat.
3. The pilothouse infrastructure has a lot of forward facing glass, and it doesn't appear that there is a lot of structural support... but I am not an engineer or such person - so I am only commenting on what I see. My concern is that in a storm the boat could take some pretty significant water over the bow - and breaking the windows or pilothouse infrastructure could be disastrous. Has anyone heard of such a thing on these boats (or the 44, which seems to be similar design)?
***I agree. Plus the windage of a high pilothouse makes the problem worse. As above, this boat is a great coastal cruiser but not designed to weather a gale offshore where the forces of the water that ships over the bow or sides is immense and tests the strength of everything on the boat (rigging, etc). IMHO we need to plan for the worst case scenario that we might encounter when we purchase and outfit our boat and few boats can do everything well, it's always a tradeoff. Your boat is a comfy, wonderful cruiser for inland and coastal waters, but not well designed for offshore. Sure, you could take yours offshore and many will say they have, but I wouldn't.
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Post by David Chambers on Mar 1, 2023 23:33:22 GMT -8
David has more expertise than me, but I don’t completely agree with him. Many, MANY 33s, 44s, and 38s have crossed oceans. There is no evidence (or even stories) of side doors ever being an issue. Nor the larger forward glass, which can be mitigated with storm glass if you’re worried about it. I believe the full keel Nauticats like the 38 have a greater righting motion than the fin keel S&S hull designs on the boats David and I own, which may make them somewhat safer from a knock down in rough waters. Strictly speaking, in the very worst conditions, our boats may be more capable of handling it, but so many variables (running and standing rigging, overall maintenance and condition, crew experience, as examples) I believe nowadays it’s more a matter of using available technology correctly. There is no excuse for sailing into a storm unexpectedly. Use your good sense and available resources, weather routing, and your Nauticat 38 or 23’ Ranger (see Sam Holmes) will take you across the ocean safely.
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ksamnic
Chief Petty Officer
Posts: 4
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Post by ksamnic on Mar 2, 2023 8:44:21 GMT -8
Thank you David and David! Good info! I guess I just need to do some tests offshore in some medium size quartering seas. TBH my biggest worry is the rolling motion, as we have had some unpleasant boat action even in the regular 3-5' chop one gets in the Straight of Georgia. I am quite experienced offshore - but in modern production boats - which have a completely different action (and their own problems!). I feel that if I can tame the rolling, we should be OK - esp for shorter trips like making our may down to Mexico etc (coming back might be more of a challenge!).
We don't 'motor-sail' a lot ... we usually motor or we sail (I am predisposed to sailing whereas my partner is more into motoring). Actually one of my goals this year is to outfit the boat with a code 0 or asym+snuffer, so we can actually move when there are light summer winds that are typical of this area. (I know - I will get set up and we will only find wind straight on the nose all summer!).
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Post by davidN43grace on Mar 2, 2023 9:19:08 GMT -8
Hello again Rob! Couple of thoughts for you-
1. Definitely put up the main and/or the jib and try motorsailing when the rolling gets bad, you'll be amazed at the difference.
2. I am glad that you have offshore experience so that I don't have to explain that things can go very bad without advanced notice despite the weather forecast and we need to be prepared for the worst, which IMHO is a broach (I don't worry so much about pitchpoling but perhaps I should).
The first broach of a boat with a high, unreinforced pilothouse with side doors could do enough damage that the second or third broach could flood the interior enough to hinder righting moment and the boat flounders. This would be the nightmare that prevents me from taking a boat like yours too far offshore but that could just be my anxiety and being very safety conscious. If my goal is to go offshore I would get a boat that could handle and recover from a broach and many are available at less cost than a Nauticat motorsailor.
Intellectually I know that I have the skills, experience and ability and even enjoy rough conditions, but I've been scared enough out there in sturdy offshore boats in an unforecasted gale of 40+ knots with 15-20 foot seas just 3-10 miles off the west coast in our Nauticat 43 that I'm confident can handle those conditions but I wouldn't want to be vulnerable in a boat 20 or more miles/8 or more hours from safe harbor in a boat that is not designed for the conditions. This is all opinion and I'm speaking for myself, of course.
David
Thank you David and David! Good info! I guess I just need to do some tests offshore in some medium size quartering seas. TBH my biggest worry is the rolling motion, as we have had some unpleasant boat action even in the regular 3-5' chop one gets in the Straight of Georgia. I am quite experienced offshore - but in modern production boats - which have a completely different action (and their own problems!). I feel that if I can tame the rolling, we should be OK - esp for shorter trips like making our may down to Mexico etc (coming back might be more of a challenge!). We don't 'motor-sail' a lot ... we usually motor or we sail (I am predisposed to sailing whereas my partner is more into motoring). Actually one of my goals this year is to outfit the boat with a code 0 or asym+snuffer, so we can actually move when there are light summer winds that are typical of this area. (I know - I will get set up and we will only find wind straight on the nose all summer!). |
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Post by David Chambers on Mar 2, 2023 22:55:12 GMT -8
Unlike David, I think your boat is safe offshore, assuming you are responsible and track the weather well. The funny thing about the (very friendly) disagreement between David and me is that many other sailers claim that our Nauticats (43 and 40) are not the safest offshore because they have large windows forward and on the sides. My question to you is: how often do you really plan to be offshore? A trip? A couple trips? If offshore, will you have emergency equipment like a Jordan series drogue? A drogue can be the difference between a deadly storm and an uncomfortable night.
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Post by HighHopes-NC44 #60 on Mar 6, 2023 12:21:05 GMT -8
Here are some thoughts:
1. The boat was designed and manufactured in and the weather in the northern latitudes of Finland. The boat is bullet proof versus newer “off shore cruisers”
2. She is a full keel boat. Under sail or motor sail, even though we have not taken the trip out yet, I believe she will take whatever the sea throws at her as long as you reduce sail before there is an issue.
3. The only thing I have read is that the pilot house roof slider is a potential challenge with Loyds of London.
4. If you have a recent rigging refresh, that would minimize any real potential challenge.
5. Leverage your ketch rig. She will balance your motion.
J. Mark Hamilton
NC-44 High Hopes
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